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Friday May 19th 2023

Good to see us back on track with three returns on Thursday. If I've left anyone out, I apologise; please leave a message on this thread and I'll update.

38 comments

38 Comments

Tom Jolliffe (aka QuaiDB)

May 19

What is to be made of the 6.55 at Leopardstown? Emily Dickinson, Ascot Gold Cup hope at 2/5 on is defeated in a facile fashion. Stratum, (which I backed) W Mullins's second favourite this morning, Frankie Dettori's only ride at the meeting drifted to 14s by the off and gave no sort of a performance.

Luckily, I found the winner in the following race at 18-1 using (Dilton's recommended) base speed figure. Managed to stay (only slightly) up on the day.

Harrytheactor

May 19

The Fabre horse Bravais looked good in a tight finish at Chantilly just now. The jockey had plenty up his sleeve. The Frankel colt is two from two over 7f now and might improve over further though the dam didn't get a mile. Fabre has him in the Grand Prix de Paris so he must reckon Bravais will stay. One to keep an eye on.

Leo

May 19

9 tracker horses going today. 4 of them are in the same race though (2.25 York), and another 2 in a later one (8.30 Leopardstown). The York race looks serious for the grade. The Appleby and Godsen fillies look special, but Haggas’ one looks overpriced.

Nap 2.25 York – Fakhama (each way)

Jonathan Dawe

May 19

Basholo in the 20:26 at Hamilton

David

May 19

Presentandcounting - Liverpool 5.55.

A fair few races again today with little reliable form - often the hint is look for "market clues" - as the winners have been dotting up at 10 to 1 or more on a regular basis i'm not convinced by this advice. Unless its ignore anthing fancied

Alan

May 19

Wind Your Neck In 14:05 Newbury EW Nap

Harrytheactor

May 19

Replying to

Only Dave Evans could train a horse of that name. It's just the sort of thing he might say. I mean, can you imagine John Gosden saying it?

Harrytheactor

May 19

What price the double: The Foxes winning the Derby and The Foxes getting relegated from the Premier League?

Would the owner give up the first to avoid the second? That's one to think about in the long watches of the night.

David

May 19

Replying to

Somewhere Ranieri smiles and a sanctimonious crisp seller stifles a tear.

Harrytheactor

May 19

Replying to

The days of "Jamie Vardy avin a pardy" and "dilly ding, dilly dong" seem very distant now, don't they. As for the Walker's fella, I don't think he's capable of stifling a tear. He will tell the world all about it on Twitter.

GazP

May 19

Persian dreamer 1.50Y.

john987

May 19

Nap is Golden Apollo instead in 4.45 at York each way.

With a small bet on Gioia Cieca in same race as looks primed for this,

Unknown member

May 19

Masekala 3.00 York is the nap,well done yesterdays winners.

Pebbles

May 19

Rory - 19.25 Hamilton

GForce

May 19

Grrr a frustrating York meet for me. My madness expects me to turn a profit but I haven't got close, hopefully yet.

Nap 1350 Gaiden

I took 10s after Relief Rally backed up the debut form

David

May 19

5,50 from yesterday is I suspect a record low return. An EW dead heat place is pretty rare. Must be worth at least a long weekend in the Betfair Suite.

David

May 19

Replying to

i think Chester is "fair" - bet the low draw at least get half a chance! Fair is over-valued

Harrytheactor

May 19

Replying to

That's right, you need an angle. The draw at Beverley, for example. You can't go far wrong with horses for courses.

Harrytheactor

May 19

Replying to

Winner finding at the fair courses very difficult today as discussed earlier

Newbury: 12/1, 16/1, 25/1, 33/1, 150/1!

York: 10/1 x 2, 14/1 x 2, 28/1!

Highflying

May 19

Milbanke e.w - 16.45 York

el gran senor

May 19

Wodao. 13.15. Chantilly.

Caught the end of the chat about the best Football Managers ever late last night.

Great Artists create Paradigm Shifts. Guardiola is on that Rinus Michels/ Cruyff/Valeriy Lobanovskyi continuum with the latter regarded as perhaps the single biggest influence on modern Football as Dynamo Kyiv (not allowed to say Dynamo Kiev anymore anymore even though the locals say the same name they have always done) and the USSR with Everyone on the pitch pressing up high like they are on amphetamines.

Guardiola has not created a Paradigm shift. It is regarded as Lobanovskyism.

I would put in a shout for Herbert Chapman who definitely created a Paradigm Shirft with Huddersfield and Arsenal in 20s/30s.

I would put in a shout for someone many have never heard of; Gustav Sebes. Manager of the Magical Magyars who were unbeaten from 1950 to 1956 in 69 matches apart from the tragic loss in the 1954 WCF.

Who invented the false number 9 in the shape of Hidegkuti?

Not Pep.

Great to see Malcolm Allison referenced yesterday and wish I had been in that Champagne Bathtub with Fiona Richmond back in the day.

Man City Fans need to remember they have had innovative coaches before Pep.

I have a Book by Paul Morley about the myths from people who claim to have seen the Sex Pistols in the legendary Manchester Free Trade Hall concert.

Less than 40 people. Joy Division (yes), The Buzzcocks (yes). Morrrisey (yes) Not Tony Wilson or anybody else who claims to have been there that night.

Malcolm Allison had his Allelujah moment when he saw the Magical Magyars at Wembley in 1953.

He was almost certainly there.

Harrytheactor

May 19

Replying to

Thresher and Craggs - with names like that they were never going to be fancy dan number 10's were they.

Tom Jolliffe (aka QuaiDB)

May 19

Replying to

Your reference to Allison training players to play in all roles was spot on. I am not sure if he created the term "utility player", but he certainly made several at Man City duriung his time there. He also had a deep interest in the physical science behind training, seeing footballers as athletes. I recollect him talking about the lung power of Colin Bell who he said, could have been a successful track athlete.

Joe Mercer was a true gentleman and is revered by all those who knew him. Allison was effectively someone who needed a wiser head to bounce things off and act as a bit of brake for him to achieve his potential.

"Moreover, he (Mercer) was able to restrain Allison in any possible excesses. But a leading group of City supporters, alarmed at the possibility that Allison might leave were he not made manager, connived to ensure that he stayed. This they achieved by encouraging a director, Frank Johnson, to sell his shares at a colossal profit. The group took over the club and reduced Mercer to general manager, making Allison the man in charge. It was disastrous."

www.theguardian.com

Malcolm Allison obituary

Flamboyant football manager and coach, a hero and villain at Manchester City

His life came to a sad end.

But Manchester City fans who remember the Mercer/Allison era will always treasure those times when the club was brought back out of the Second Division after years of no achievement.

On the issue of innovation, there was the "Revie plan" named after Don Revie who played a key role in its implementation as a player for Manchester City. This, though, was a derivative of the Hungarian system which shocked England in 1953 when they lost 6-3. Some say it is like the false 9 system still used today. It did seem to work, though, at least it enabled City to get to Wembley in '55 (lost) and '56 (won).

Revie went on, too, to have more than a decade of success with the Leeds United team. But looking back now, it all looks a bit clunking.

And if we are talking about coaches, I think that Brian Clough must come into the discussion. He seemed capable of finding unexpected talent in the most unlikely players. His achievements were pretty staggering given the (lack of) resources. perhaps a bit like a good horse trainer who takes on horses from other trainers who have not succeeded, but who manages to find the key. Sadly, he, too, had demons (alcoholism) which eventually destroyed him.

Dilton

May 19

Replying to

Clough had Peter Taylor .

The booze got Malc to.

Robicheaux7

May 18

Redemption time. York 5.15.